Friday, August 20, 2010

Why I hate the eOne Pump

Buyers beware!
If you are in the market for a grinder pump for your sewer waste; check for manufacturer and distributor’s warranty, what is being covered under warranty, and do you have to prepay with your credit card or certified cheque before getting warranty service.

READ THIS before you make your decision.







I paid $5130 for a eOne Pump; I am suppose to get 27-month warranty from shipping. At time of purchasing, I was told that the Environmental eOne Pump will last at lease 10 years. It ended up breaking down within the warranty period, but John Brooks, being the only distributor in Ontario, John Brooks demanded me to prepay them $4250 by certified cheque BEFORE they will take out the pump if it is still under warranty.

They would not want to take payment off my credit card. I had offered John Brooks to charge to my credit card, I told them that I am doubling my warranty period if I am paying by my credit card.
The manufacturer, Environmental eOne Corporation would not help you either. The company has only two distributors in Canada. The manufacturer is NOT prepared to take back their own product even when I offered to pay for the pairs. They refused to issue authorization to take back the pump, and let you being rib off by their only representative in Ontario. There are no written warrantly other than what was posted on their website which said nothing but you are getting 2-year limited warranty, or 27 months after shipping. You are on your own once you BUY their pumps.

I finally get it fixed; it took me six months without sewer to the house. Scarboro Pump fixed it by replacing two parts, a relay built inside the pump that was burned out, and the grinder that was being worn out when the relay broken and kept the grinder to run out.

The relay which is responsible to trigger the pump to turn on and off burned out and the pump malfunctioned. With the damaged relay, it won't trigger the pump to stop and kept running until the grinder part worn out. It should well be a manufacturer's warranty, but the John Brooks would not even work on it unless you prepaid them.

Customers calling for service, they will ask you for your credit card. John Brooks will qoute you $80 an hour for the service call, however, when you get the bill, they are billing you $80 per technician, that is, if they figure that they put two people on the truck, they charge you $160 an hour. They will not tell you that you will be charged for mileage from their Mississauga shop, plus toll if going on the ETR 407. This is in violation of the Consumer Protection Act.

This is what had happened to me:
I purchased an environmental grinder pump for my property from eOne Corporation of USA on about July 2007 from its sole distributor John Brooks Company Limited, located at 2625 Meadowpine Blvd, Mississauga, Ontario L5N 7K5. I paid $5130 for the pump at the time.



My house was on septic tank. The Town of Markham Engineering Department recommends residents in our neighborhood to use the eOne pump for hooking up to the town's sewer system at the time. The entire household waste water disposal has cost me over $10,000 for building permit and installation.



At time when I purchase the pump, I was told by both eOne Corporation and John Brooks Company Limited that the pump is designed to last 10 plus years with maintenance free; but the company offered a 2-year limited warranty, or 27-months after delivery.



I begin having problems from time to time with the pump since early 2009; from time to time, the siren came on, that the holding reservoir inside the pumping station was filled up to the top, it is taking “longer” then normal to grind and dispose the household sewer; I was not aware of the failing pump as it cleared itself after setting the siren off for 15-20 minutes, and I was told that it was normal.



I went overseas on business on about November of 2009, the pump stopped and sewer backup into the house while I was gone. John Brooks was called in for service. The caller (name not shown to block identity for her privacy) was quoted at $80 an hour and technician started charging time when leaving from Mississauga. When arriving, the technician went to the basement to toggle the switches, and told the caller that the pump was then working fine. He then turned around and handed her a bill for $1197.51. Mississauga is only about 25 km away; the technician came for less than 15 minutes and there is absolutely no reason to justify for charging this kind of money. Caller denied payment and the technician left. I came back just before Christmas and I did not have knowledge to the service call until later.



Towards the end of January 2010, the siren came off again. This time, I was present and I called John Brooks. At first, Jimmy Young, Customer Service at John Brooks referred me to Patrick Kelly (who I later found out his is in sales, old me toggled the switches turning the pump on and off and to get it going again. It works for a couple of days, and failed again! Due to the emergency, I have to call Patrick Kelly back on Sunday January 31st, 2010; I was told that he is in sales and I was calling his home number. Patrick Kelly told me to call back John Brooks during office hours, and it would cost me $65 an hour for technician to come on site for service.



I called on the following day February 1, 2010. I received a call from Craig Algar that he can come to service the pump the following morning. He confirmed to me that service charge is $80 an hour, and would take about a couple of hours to get it done. Craig Algar asked me to email him the address, model and serial number, and he confirmed his appointment on the following day.



When Craig Algar arrived on site, he spend about 15 minutes going down to turn off the switches in the basement, and took a quick look at the pump well outside. It was then I found out about the November service call from him. He left and told me that he had to order parts and may take a few days.



I then received an email from Paul Guibert. In his email, he wanted to charge me $401.80 for this service call, $1197.51 for the November visit. In short, Paul Guibert, Service Manager of John Brooks Company Limited (at 1260 Kamato Road, Mississauga, On L4W 1Y1) is asking me to pay $4250.05 prepaid by certified cheque BEFORE coming to pull my pump out.



John Brooks would need to be repaid them $4250.25 to pull out the pump BEFORE they know if it is cover under warranty.



Under the Consumer Protection Act in Ontario, John Brooks is in violation of the Act.



Here is a list of your basic rights under the Consumer Protection Act, 2002. For more detailed and specific information on any one of them, visit the Your Rights By Subject section on the left side of this website.

If you are sent goods you didn’t ask for, you don’t have to accept or pay for them.

In fact, you may use them or throw them out. You’re not responsible for an unsolicited credit card either – unless you buy something with it.

Pre-paid goods or services over $50 must have a written contract.

When some part of the contract occurs in the future (e.g. a gym membership), written contracts are required for goods or services worth more than $50. The contract must contain complete details of the transaction and full disclosure of any credit terms.

Contracts must be clear and comprehensible.

Vague language is discouraged in contracts. All required information must be clear, prominent and easy to understand. If there is a dispute over unclear language, it must be interpreted in favour of the consumer by law.

Misrepresentation is illegal.

All charges in a contract must be what they say they are. For example, a business may not add a $20 surcharge for a “tax” that is not really for tax. Make sure you understand what each charge is for and that it’s valid.

Sales incentives may not be false, misleading or deceptive.

A salesperson can offer you an incentive to help find other buyers, but the description of the incentive cannot be false, misleading or deceptive.

Consumer agreements must disclose all details.

If a company isn’t delivering on its contract with you, or if you encounter an aspect of the deal the company was required to disclose by law but didn’t, you have the right to cancel within one year.

Anyone who violates the Consumer Protection Act, 2002 will have to pay.

Individuals violating certain sections of the act are liable to a fine of up to $50,000 or imprisonment of up to two years less one day. A corporation can be fined up to $250,000.

Your Rights When You Buy Over the Phone

When you buy something over the phone, it’s important to note that the agreement can be cancelled if the company doesn’t disclose required information, including the full amount the company knows will be payable under the agreement.

The transaction may also be cancelled if you don’t receive a written copy of the agreement within 30 days of the billing date, or 60 days after you entered into the agreement, whichever comes first.

Review your credit card statements carefully to confirm you are only billed the amounts disclosed to you and make sure to dispute any incorrect charges immediately.

39 comments:

  1. Wow thanks for the warning. It is great that good people like you are out to protect the interests of others.

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  2. Dude, no offence to your story but your case doesn't totally make sense in some parts.

    According to your post, you claim that you were unaware of the 1st visit in Nov 2009. It seems like your house keeper (aka "The Caller") DID NOT inform you about the problem of your pump station. So you didn't know anything about the first service bill. Therefore You can't really blame the company not really want to come back the 2nd time in Jan 2010 unless with some money pre-paid (after all at that point you do owe them service charge eventhough in your defense, you know nothing of).

    Then there is the warranty and service issue that you blended the 2 different issue together. Doesn't warranty only cover the parts? and Service charge is just service charge. Therefore I would've found someone else to service if i disagree with the charges.

    In my understanding John Brooks doesn't do any installations and Plumbing. So I would be more interested to know which contractor you use to install your unit.

    It really seems like you wrote this post while you're angry. I hope you didn't proceed any legal actions. Just with this post alone, if the company could probably counter you with Libel Defamation.

    However, thank you very much for a wonderful story. It's still very nice of you to share with us your knowledge of the Consumer Protection Act.

    Thanks

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  3. We too have a serious E-One service problem here on Vancouver Island. There is only one "authorized" service "technician" for the Island and his rates are out of hand. Are there any other E-One grinder pump owners on Vancouver Island?

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  4. I would like to have been able to edit my previous message but this format doesn't seem to allow me to do so. My last sentence should have asked if there were any other E-One grinder pump owners on Van. is. who have complaints about their pumps and/or service?

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  5. I have had mine serviced 4 times in 3 years -- a variety of issues - none attributed to anything other than poor design. I have learned that these units have a rubber pumping element that is prone to failure. Like you, I also had the relay replaced. Junk. Luckily all mine were covered under warranty

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  6. I do also would like to contribute my review of EONE here.
    I seldom write review of any product, because even if i'm bothered by product i've purchased, i tend to get over it. But after spending much time and misery on this system, i hope to help people aware of few issues before you get this system installed, as it is near impossible to swap it for another system (unless you are willing to spend more money than your original install cost, since there are cost of taking this system out gets added)
    First of all, due to my frontage of the property and type of installation required we've spent over 12000 for our eOne system and it is indoor unit. Pump itself was little over $3500, pipe and fittings was about $1000, everything else was excavator man hour etc. I have one indoor pump with electrical box and alarm, simple hookup.
    Our pump location is in the basement and far from our first floor bedroom directly underneath our laundry room. Due to the distance it needed to pump out, which was the opposite wall of the pump location - underneath our bedroom, it has few 90 degree bends and goes through few floor wood beams until exits our home in basement wall.
    Problem started happening from day one. After the installation, we thought there was something wrong with the pump, humming, grinding, shaking, rattling everything. I've had the company to stop over to inspect the unit twice and they've told us everything is normal. I am not very sensitive to noise, but this thing is really annoying, every flush, every dishwasher runs, every laundy cycle - you got the point. So i had built sound proof little closet over it, which dampened the noise of actual motor little bit. However pump comes on with a such a force that rattles every hose that it connected to.
    When pump turns on, according to EONE website it claims that its is as loud as washing machine if you're standing on top of it (this is for outdoor unit) Our indoor unit is more like a vacuum cleaner loud, i mean it is very loud. When we put our laundry and go to sleep, we never get bothered by noise at all - and that is both laundry machine and drier working at the same time, but this grinder pump being in the basement and in its own soundproof closet- makes our life miserable!

    Continued on part 2:

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  7. Part 2:

    EONE indoor grinder pump made our life miserable. We ask our kids or guest not to go to bathroom or flush after we are asleep, otherwise it will kick on and wake up the whole neighborhood! It shouldn't be that way. Oh, forget about doing laundry or washing dishes if you're planning to go to bed or relax! that's impossible! You have no idea countless websites i've searched for remedies and number of plumbers we've requested quote for a replacement outdoor unit.
    I've called EONE and had their authorized installer to come check this unit out and was told that it is "Short Cycling", but the noise is normal! Are you freaking kidding me about the noise? How do you make such a poor product with no sound insulation and expect people to carry on with their normal lives? Also the authorized company told me that they need to pull out the pump and if it was covered by the warranty they will replace parts, but if not - they will not put it back together? I was very confused. Warranty is for 5 years, and EONE claims no problem with the unit for over 10 years. We only had this unit for 2.5 years, problem occured from day 1, you can easily see the timeline here. Of course after 2.5 years, i am unable to recuperate my cost and have this junk taken out of my property!
    I bet EONE employees don't use their product at their own homes! The reason i say that is that, this indoor unit is so unpleasantly loud and rattles all of our plumbing system in our basement, customer service is not good. Authorized installers will not do anything without charging you extra money.
    Bottom line, do yourself favor, google up and study before you buy, and make your own sound decision! Hope this helps someone, as i do not work for any of EONE's competitor nor have any benefit of writing this review, done it purely out of my frustration! thanks

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  8. Great Post about pumps..
    Worth reading!!

    Sewer Pump

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  9. Sorry for your trouble with a bad dealer for E-One Pumps. We here at Let's Fix It, are a E-One Dealer and these are the Best Pumps on the market... We never ask for money up front or try to rip people off. We always check the warranty at the pump by the install date. Then if we question it we call the company and talk to them . We have never had a Bad service Experience with E-One ,they have always bent over backwards to help. We never let the client deal with E-one because we are on a personal bases with E-one and can get things done much faster.I'm sorry you had a bad time with your service ,but E-one does Stand behind there product and so do we ... Hope things get better... John Hamilton, (Lets Fix It)

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  10. This is for Chinzo Ulzii, We have never installed one inside a home . Yet, You can't here it run if installed properly. Or Unless your bearings are bad... If they are bad you can hear it real good. Can you send a video of the pump running with sound , maybe I can tell you whats going on. here's my E-mail: reddragoncharm@gmail.com...

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  11. This is for Greg Zweig, That is Crazy, I have never heard of Replacing that many Stators in my life. They changed the design in 2009. We used to give a life rating of 2- 5 yrs. but now life rating is 5-7 yrs. since the change in 2009. There has to be a reason this is happening. We work on them daily and have never had this issue. Maybe flushing cat litter, grout from tile work anything like that of who ever is servicing your pump isn't cleaning the Metal Rotor of hard rubber left from the old Stators. Hope this helps.. John Hamilton, Lets Fix It Grand Rivers ,Ky.

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  12. You can change out your E one pump with another brand. I like Little Giant but their are others as well. They are plug and play and come prewire to work In the current E One setups. A plumber should be able to help you with this. Many plumbing supply store sell these pumps and repair parts.

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  13. Also if anyone needs help with their E One pump feel free to email me. I have access to all of the E One factory repair manuals and may be able to help you trouble shoot or repair it. Seano@affordablesewagesolutions.com

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    Replies
    1. Hello I was wondering if you would have a manual on my 1994 e one series 2000 grinder pump it is very loud bad bearing I would like to fix it my self.thank you

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  14. I have had similar problems! My E one grinder pump was installed late in 2008. It 2010 the alarm went off and it had to be rebuilt. The rebuilder said there were rocks, string mop pieces and other such debris. (I have never used a string mop and I obviously don't put rocks down my toilet!) I thought the first installer had fouled up so I let it go. The cost was $2400. Then in 2012 the alarm went off again. The E one distributor here in Arizona had me call a man who supposedly was the only one certified to work on the E one pumps. He had it rebuilt and charged me $4000.00 in cash! Yes that is right! 40 Green $100.00 bills! Now it has gone out again and my plumber has been working with the rep to get it fixed once again! I have been without a sewer for four days since it was discovered on Friday and because it was over the weekend, it couldn't be rebuilt until today which is Tuesday! The E One tech, Mike from Signa (the current distributor), forgot to include the adaptor (which my plumber took in with the pump) and insisted my plumber drive the 30 miles back to pick up the adaptor! I want an E One expert to inspect my system and guess what? It's the same repairman, Mike, who they plan to send and Signa wanted $135.00 to come out and do an inspection! I talked them in to sending Mike out complimentarily for 1 hour but I've had it! Now that I have found this blog I may have been able to convince my plumber to use a different pump. He said the E-One is the only pump that uses a smaller pipe. I think he said 1 inch but he may have said 1 1/2.

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    Replies
    1. Wow, that sucks! 4 K for a freaking rebuild and not even a new pump? CASH!!!!! Please let us know if ever you get jammed up again. We have reveres engineered the old (aka: good) 200 series and, ironically, we are now more interchangeable with E-1 than E-1 is interchangeable with E-1. My business partner and I have over 50 years combined experience with E-1's and they used to be a very reliable and best value product. Unfortunately, the new (since +/-2008) Xtreme is a POS. We are not bound by territorial contracts and, more than likely, can help you out with full replacement plug and play replacement pump (PD, centrifugal, pressure switch or float control, etc....), rebuild and/or simply parts replacement. We support the entire 200 series (+/-1970-1995), 2000 series (+/-1995-2008) and some very minor parts for the Xtrme (we did not invest in this model since we do not believe it will survive very well in the market). For $4000 bucks I will come out to Arizona, personally and install a brand new pump! (especially after 3' of snow in Maryland). Sorry to hear you got sucker punched! Please contact us next time. We are confident we can, at least, point you in the rite direction if not be able to help out directly. Good luck in the future.

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    2. Buck you are Maryland? Whats your contact info?
      Im in Md and this pump is driving me crazy.

      Delete
  15. check this out


    http://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=85&s=26&c=19

    sold in Toronto for $2300.00 or let if you negotiate

    NEXT SUPPLY
    82 NORTH QUEEN STREET
    ETOBICOKE, ON M8Z 2C9
    416-233-0794

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  16. Eone pumps are junk I run a utility and we have over 450 and it's been a nightmare

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    Replies
    1. Hay guys, I just run across this sight while I was looking for places to market a motor I have been building for the last 5 years. I have a place on a island in northern Michigan that put in 900 E-1 series 200 pumps about 18 years ago now. Our sewer bill had been going up by leaps and bounds every year so I had to find out what was going on. I found out they had to pay over $900 for a replacement motor,,,out of this world...I could build a replacement from a std. motor a lot cheaper than that. So that is how things got started. I have been mod. std. motors to a direct fit to the e-1 series 200 pump and selling them for $760 US. I JUST GOT everything completed with a leading US motor company to build these motors in factory and will be able to sell them at $512. US. If anyone is interested I will have to check on how to sell in Ca. but would be glad to do what I can to help you out. get back at cedarlanebb@hotmail.com

      Delete
  17. Hi, we use in Czech Rep. such equipment in price 1500USD. SIGMA PRESS. http://www.sigma1868.cz/data/pdf/SIGMAPRESS/SIGMAPRESS-leaflet.pdf

    This is produced more than 25 years and nobody is goig to change it. The life time of it is arround 20 years..

    David Hrncir, SIGMA PUMPS

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  18. E One pumps are only good for scrap metal, my mother who lives next door to me is on her fifth pump in 14 years, she does not cook, so no kitchen wastes, no cat, so no cat litter. She lives alone so only a minimum water bill and yet every 3 years or so another defective pump is pulled. Pump #4 was the final E-One for me, when it died prematurely as expected ( 3.5 yrs ) I replaced it with a Liberty "Omnivore" grinder pump which has good user reviews. The only people who have positive comments about the E-One pumps are either the manufacturer or authorized sales/ installation/ repair agents.

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  19. I a a builder in the Northeast US and have only used E/One products for 30 years. Your story does not jive with my experience. These are the best pumps on the market and E/One is a tremendously supportive and responsive company. It sounds like we're getting half the story here

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    Replies
    1. Im wondering if the experience these people are have is due to putting things like condoms/female products ect.. in them. Also could it be a bad distributor since there is usually only 1 distributor per state or province. Like to hear your thoughts Im in Washington State.

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  20. I have been in my house since Feb.2000. Since that time I have had three new E/one pumps. The first one that was installed failed and was rebuilt two different times. The second new one failed and I was told that the change in design made it impossible to rebuild. After that one failed I had to have yet another one. I have almost a hundred feet of head to overcome so I keep putting them in, but they last just long enough to make it past the warranty. I consider them poorly designed, expensive junk.

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  21. Hi..can you tell me the voltage of this pomp? Thank you David Hrncir

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  22. E-One pumps are only available 208-240V single Phase. which can be an issue for users that only have 115v available, or they want 3-phase.

    If you're in the New England Area or farther, feel free to contact me. I pre-package systems that suit the end user, and allow later repairs to be affordable, giving you the freedom to choose your aftermarket pump.(american way)

    I would be glad to help you with a system, and explain the process. I've packaged systems in concrete tanks,fiberglass tanks, HDPE, grinder pumps, solids handling-non-clog, large and small. And. I've gotten the calls, "I can't flush my toilet and i have a party coming over tonite"

    I've worked with Champion, Keen, Power-Flo,Liberty, Homa, Flygt, Ebara, and would be glad to help you so you understand how these things work.

    Honestly, E-one has a pretty good reputation for the most-part, the pump industry is difficult because there are such wide ranges of install and user errors.

    If you're an engineer, Homeowner, or Contractor, let me know if I can help,

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    Replies
    1. Hi ian, do you still package grinder pump systems? I'm in Connecticut and my e/one 2000 series pump just stopped working for the first time after 16 years. The capacitor went on the motor. The part is supposed to be delivered today. I wanted to look into getting a backup pump because not being able to use the shower etc. for a couple of days makes life tough. Please get in touch with me via e-mail @ scott.conquest1@gmail.com, Thanks

      Delete
  23. I'm fed up with my stupid eOne grinder pump. I live in a small community on northern Vancouver Island, and there is no one available to provide service or repair. And EPCOR, the company that installed the system, is long gone. So when pumps break down (mine just broke down for the fourth time) the municipality has to deal with it. Public works will pull the pump, install a 'loaner' and ship the pump out for repairs, and bill the property owner for that. My pump broke down soon after it was installed, so still under warranty, but the second and third time were not covered. And now, just this week the alarm went off again. less than 10 months since the last 'fix'. There is no one to call locally to check it out. I heard some folks tried a plumber, and he didn't have a clue. I'm just renting my place, and haven't heard back from property owner, but I'm pretty sure she will not be willing to pay for repair again. The system was installed in 2008. Meanwhile I can't flush! Or do dishes or laundry, or have a bath, or even brush my teeth. Luckily I have neighbours to go to. I am not impressed. If I was young, and looking for a career, I would definitely sign up with eOne sewer apprenticeship program. Look at all the work to be had fixing these pumps, not to mention the alarm box malfunctions, and the installation glitch fixes. What a nightmare. I'm so glad I found this blog. I really needed to vent. And I'm sorry to see so many others are having the same problem.

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  24. Thank you for posting all this information. I was considering an e-one grinder pump. You and others who have commented have definitely changed my mind.

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  25. Thanks for sharing nice information.

    We at R.B. Mosher Co providing quality products and services for lift station pumps, Petrochemical, OEM, and Municipal Industries.
    Lift Station Pumps

    ReplyDelete
  26. I, too, have a problem with Eone 2000 series. I just bought my house 15 months ago. The house was built in 2005 and the Eone pump lasted 13 years and now need a new one. Perhaps those of you that have frequent pump failures...perhaps iron in the water? Hard minerals? It's just conjecture...

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  27. Im currently being told by the city that I have to put in an e one grinder pump system. Not very happy considering that it took a week to get a sales call returned after leaving 3 messages a day on 2 different lines. Then finding this post makes me very concerned that I'm going to get highway robbery when it comes times for service.

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  28. If you have an E-one grinder pump installed; make sure to have the Protect Plus control panel installed too! It will turn the system into the best grinder. It protects the pump from many different issues: jammed cutter, long run times, low voltage, close valve, etc... If you are near the Charlotte area Call Lake Norman Sewer or if you just have any questions (704)-483-5125

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  30. Thanks ..

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    ReplyDelete
  31. E-one is absolutely the worst system ever. We, in our little hamlet of Bragg Creek, AB, were forced into using this system in 2014. I had a $2500 bill after 4 years and that was just to recondition the pump--replace the stator/whatever (can't remember). And now, just under 2 years later, it is gone again and my tenants are not able to use any water until it is diagnosed and fixed. E-one pumps should be outlawed and their company should be sued for all the grief and money they have cost consumers. Just say NO to them.

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    Replies
    1. We too are in Bragg Creek. We were not living in the hamlet when these e-one systems were installed, so we have inherited this system. For the past 2 years we have had nothing but problems with our system. This past year has been very problematic.
      I could count on one hand the times Aquatech has been here to try and figure out the problem with no success and a $500.00 plus bill every time they come out here. Apparently Aquatech is the only company who can work on our system? It's been an expensive process and they still can't figure out why our alarm and high water alert comes on constantly they have replaced everything - the next thing is to replace the mother board!. Do you know of others in Bragg Creek who have had issues?

      Delete
    2. Has anyone had any issues with their panel where the mother board or whole panel needs replacing? Where do you buy the light bulbs for the red alarm on top of your panel? Got one from Aquatech - $12.00 later for a bulb!

      Delete